>"77 meetings between 1 and 6am" statistic, and I could see the look of shock in their faces. Did they assume I was just working 9-5 and not making an effort to accommodate other timezones?
I've remote for most part for over 10 years; fully remote since 2019. I've always worked with a big timezone gap. This is not sustainable - I've played the whole "change my sleep cycle" game and it just does not work either in terms of health or time with family.
Most of the time it is worth it to push back and get meetings moved. If someone is being consistently unreasonable, then escalating to the next level may be the answer.
No mention of loneliness? There are times when I end up going days without seeing another human soul. You don’t always notice it until you start disassociating and reflect. I try to go out to buy lunch just to see people.
Yea, loneliness is not something you should rely on work to solve. It’s something people should just solve for themselves by simply going out and meeting people. It’s a bit cliche, but you know those people at the park who play chess at lunch time? What do people think _they_ are there for? Go out for a walk, or a meal, and meet your neighbors.
On the weekends sure but during the weekdays it’s sporadic. There was a period I was working at a fully remote company and occasionally I’d get to around Thursday and hadn’t interacted with another person since Sunday and I’d just spiral in to depression.
I also mentally just don’t feel like my coworkers are real if I don’t ever see them. They are just like icons on a screen.
Currently working 2/3 days in office and it’s ideal. Can load all the meetings on those days, chat with everyone, but can still spend some days alone.
I used to go out and meet my friends almost once a week, and then I had a friend who wouldn't go meet anyone. It varies from person to person. I also live with family so I was meeting friends mostly because I don't have much in common with my family in terms of hobbies.
I worked majority remote 2007-2018 and unsurprisingly entirely remote 2020-2023. Never once did I miss people as a result. Now I farm, and I leave the farm once every 2-3 weeks, and see no-one but my wife and possibly the neighbors on occasion. I can't speak for all introverts, but I can speak for myself: interaction via the Internet is more than sufficient.
"Staying motivated. I found keeping a daily log of what I accomplished works best (I've done this for over a decade). If one day my entry looks soft, I try to do more on the next." - Brilliant idea. I find this works too, yet I never read any "motivation/ efficiency experts" mention this.
In writing a journal, you have to think - review your day, then think how to summarize it, then write it down. Repeat this a few times and it becomes a habit that can be called upon any time.
Write-only journals build valuable mental skills.
I give talks on feedback loops, and also struggle with reviewing my own journals :-D
I keep a bookmark at ~now-3 months and ~now-1 year and glance at those entries every other week or so. I like it - an easy way to create a little chronology context and to refresh memories. It also motivates me to keep making new entries.
You do you obviously, but in my opinion this is a mistake. You sacrifice a lot of personal time and your health for a work that:
a. Could accommodate better time for meetings
b. Cares absolutely nothing about you
I am working remote for about 10 years now. I had zero meetings after 8pm and I work with 8h diff from the US where my company is.
Having stomach issues after meetings for an extended period (even for short periods) is clearly not normal. Anxiety is a good guess or just plain exhaustion.
All the "fake it until you make it" and "do the crunch now rest later" BS is just that. BS.
Take it easy, your body will be grateful for it.
I just had an ex-colleague pass away at the age of 40 last week due to a heart attack. He was a gym going dude with good health even. He was not the only one in my 20 years career, just the last one. It never worth it.
I love the photo... what appears to be a Commodore C64C given permanent desk space off to the right, the familiar Stewart Calculus textbook sitting on the shelf...
i think he does, but chooses to not complain. according to:
> Upset stomaches. One early meeting every two weeks doesn't sound too bad. The worst problem is that it can leave me with an upset stomach that can last for days. I'm still working fine, it's just uncomfortable. I don't know if other people suffer this or why it happens. Maybe it's just the extra coffee.
There should be a mutual understanding of expected hours for any jobs, and compensation and respect for timezones and work life and health balances. your body needs sleep, feeling tired when you try to wakeup, is your body telling you to not wakeup yet...
but if he volunteered that its okay with em, fine.. but hope he does not expect others to have the 'suck it up' mentality
Right, this kind of job can improve, and should improve. But right now there's talk of ending remote work entirely, without considering that people have been making the effort for years, hence sharing an anecdote. The bigger point is that remote workers are more accommodating than is assumed, and my anecdote is an example of that (even if it is too much).
One other factor I'm curious what people think: If you were offered 7-figures USD to do these kind of hours from anywhere in the world, would that make a difference?
> If you were offered 7-figures USD to do these kind of hours from anywhere in the world, would that make a difference?
Depends, if your work schedule leaves you so drained that it leads to extreme burnout and eventual depression, along with a string of health issues, then it doesn't matter how much money you make, because spending it won't bring you the joy back, and you may fall into a shopping addiction in order to keep you stimulated. Sometimes I think of telling my boss that I don't want a raise, I want less hours at the same rate.
>"77 meetings between 1 and 6am" statistic, and I could see the look of shock in their faces. Did they assume I was just working 9-5 and not making an effort to accommodate other timezones?
I've remote for most part for over 10 years; fully remote since 2019. I've always worked with a big timezone gap. This is not sustainable - I've played the whole "change my sleep cycle" game and it just does not work either in terms of health or time with family.
Most of the time it is worth it to push back and get meetings moved. If someone is being consistently unreasonable, then escalating to the next level may be the answer.
No mention of loneliness? There are times when I end up going days without seeing another human soul. You don’t always notice it until you start disassociating and reflect. I try to go out to buy lunch just to see people.
I’m always surprised by this take. Do people not see their friends outside of work?
Yea, loneliness is not something you should rely on work to solve. It’s something people should just solve for themselves by simply going out and meeting people. It’s a bit cliche, but you know those people at the park who play chess at lunch time? What do people think _they_ are there for? Go out for a walk, or a meal, and meet your neighbors.
On the weekends sure but during the weekdays it’s sporadic. There was a period I was working at a fully remote company and occasionally I’d get to around Thursday and hadn’t interacted with another person since Sunday and I’d just spiral in to depression.
I also mentally just don’t feel like my coworkers are real if I don’t ever see them. They are just like icons on a screen.
Currently working 2/3 days in office and it’s ideal. Can load all the meetings on those days, chat with everyone, but can still spend some days alone.
I used to go out and meet my friends almost once a week, and then I had a friend who wouldn't go meet anyone. It varies from person to person. I also live with family so I was meeting friends mostly because I don't have much in common with my family in terms of hobbies.
"Harry, You Don't Need to Sell It to Me!" To some, the chance to go days without messing with humans is a pro, not a con.
Gotta go see people in the evenings I find.
Sounds like you don't have many meetings and it might make sense to work from a coffee shop or something from time to time.
I have meetings, but those are very focussed. I crave the human interaction around the coffee machine/water cooler.
A cafe doesn't really lead to casual friendships.
But yes, I have started going out for pizza at lunch just to be less isolated, still miss the office though.
I have coworking days with friends. Body doubling is super enjoyable.
I worked majority remote 2007-2018 and unsurprisingly entirely remote 2020-2023. Never once did I miss people as a result. Now I farm, and I leave the farm once every 2-3 weeks, and see no-one but my wife and possibly the neighbors on occasion. I can't speak for all introverts, but I can speak for myself: interaction via the Internet is more than sufficient.
+1. I'm covered. Forced to help my coworkers deal with empty nest syndrome using Teams calls. To such a degree I have no interest in filling my own.
I have 3 kids, give me some loneliness please.
"Staying motivated. I found keeping a daily log of what I accomplished works best (I've done this for over a decade). If one day my entry looks soft, I try to do more on the next." - Brilliant idea. I find this works too, yet I never read any "motivation/ efficiency experts" mention this.
I do a lot of logging/journaling, but they tend to be write-only. They'd probably be more effective if I got in the habit of reviewing them.
In writing a journal, you have to think - review your day, then think how to summarize it, then write it down. Repeat this a few times and it becomes a habit that can be called upon any time.
Write-only journals build valuable mental skills.
I give talks on feedback loops, and also struggle with reviewing my own journals :-D
I keep a bookmark at ~now-3 months and ~now-1 year and glance at those entries every other week or so. I like it - an easy way to create a little chronology context and to refresh memories. It also motivates me to keep making new entries.
The actual title is better:
> 3 Years of Extremely Remote Work
You do you obviously, but in my opinion this is a mistake. You sacrifice a lot of personal time and your health for a work that: a. Could accommodate better time for meetings b. Cares absolutely nothing about you
I am working remote for about 10 years now. I had zero meetings after 8pm and I work with 8h diff from the US where my company is.
Having stomach issues after meetings for an extended period (even for short periods) is clearly not normal. Anxiety is a good guess or just plain exhaustion. All the "fake it until you make it" and "do the crunch now rest later" BS is just that. BS. Take it easy, your body will be grateful for it.
I just had an ex-colleague pass away at the age of 40 last week due to a heart attack. He was a gym going dude with good health even. He was not the only one in my 20 years career, just the last one. It never worth it.
I love the photo... what appears to be a Commodore C64C given permanent desk space off to the right, the familiar Stewart Calculus textbook sitting on the shelf...
I actually only just got the C64C and was surprised I could get it to fit on my desk. C64Cs are massive. Now to connect it to some display...
He seem to not realize the damage yet
i think he does, but chooses to not complain. according to:
> Upset stomaches. One early meeting every two weeks doesn't sound too bad. The worst problem is that it can leave me with an upset stomach that can last for days. I'm still working fine, it's just uncomfortable. I don't know if other people suffer this or why it happens. Maybe it's just the extra coffee.
There should be a mutual understanding of expected hours for any jobs, and compensation and respect for timezones and work life and health balances. your body needs sleep, feeling tired when you try to wakeup, is your body telling you to not wakeup yet...
but if he volunteered that its okay with em, fine.. but hope he does not expect others to have the 'suck it up' mentality
edit: formating
Right, this kind of job can improve, and should improve. But right now there's talk of ending remote work entirely, without considering that people have been making the effort for years, hence sharing an anecdote. The bigger point is that remote workers are more accommodating than is assumed, and my anecdote is an example of that (even if it is too much).
One other factor I'm curious what people think: If you were offered 7-figures USD to do these kind of hours from anywhere in the world, would that make a difference?
Yes. You are also probably doing interesting work.
> If you were offered 7-figures USD to do these kind of hours from anywhere in the world, would that make a difference?
Depends, if your work schedule leaves you so drained that it leads to extreme burnout and eventual depression, along with a string of health issues, then it doesn't matter how much money you make, because spending it won't bring you the joy back, and you may fall into a shopping addiction in order to keep you stimulated. Sometimes I think of telling my boss that I don't want a raise, I want less hours at the same rate.