Oh! Something I took a part in on HN. That's a first. Almost everything there was practical. Highly recommend checking out all of Max's work, beaming with creativity.
So its not mentioned on the post but is this your actual passport photo that was accepted and used and you have it on your physical passport right now?
It's a lot of "fun" trying to get acceptable photos. Last week I went to my local American Automobile Association (AAA) office to get an International Driver's Permit (IDP). It's just a translation of your license, which is valid for 1 year. I had to take 2 passport-sized photos with me, which I did.
But I was told they wouldn't be accepted because I had long hair and a beard in them, but short hair and no beard now. That's absurd, because it's the same photo used in both of my passports, and there's no requirement that you don't alter your appearance from your passport photo. Somehow border guards can crack the code.
Amusingly, my California driver's license shows short hair and no beard, but the AAA person wasn't even looking at my CA license at the time. What happens if I grow long hair and a beard before I travel? Was he just trying to upsell me on a $9.99 photo?
We had a hell of a time getting the UK passport authorities to accept the photos we sent in for her passport; they recommend getting your photos taken at an "official" UK location where the digital photos are identified by a code you send in. Well, we happened to be traveling through Australia during this timeframe, so we were able to stop at an Australian Post Office, which supposedly had the same "digital" system, but instead of a code to send to the UK authorities, they handed us printed photos and a web link. Thankfully I was able to use the web link to download the photo and upload it to the UK site, where it was approved almost immediately, and the new passport arrived back at our home before we returned from our trip. But there's no user-obvious criteria that was being used to reject the SEVERAL rounds of photos we had sent to the UK earlier.
I made my passport photos on a phone camera against a white wall, stitched them together with other family members and printed them on a 4x6 photo at CVS.
I think it cost something like $0.68 for 2 photos, each of which had all four of our photos plus 2 extra spots.
In my recent experience renewing my UK passport, I found I was able to submit the image regardless of the complaining it gave, I just had to write a note as to why I thought the image did in fact meet their criteria.
In my case, whatever detection software they used seemed to think my eyes were closed, which they were not.
I just used a normal picture taken on a phone, against a plain white wall, accepted with no issues.
Yeah, the criteria is clear, but do everything you can to meet it, and the online submission will just say the photo quality is "poor" (unlikely to be approved) and not explain what's poor about it. I spent a lot of time juggling aspects of the photo itself as well as of the scan (DPI, compression, etc) and nothing seemed to make a difference.
> but instead of a code to send to the UK authorities, they handed us printed photos and a web link.
I had a similar experience with getting UK photos at a chemist, they said they could do digital photos and didn’t. So I went to the Photo Warehouse and it was smooth sailing. I guess the specialist photo outfits are more likely to know what they’re doing.
Huh. Last time I got an IDP from AAA, I don't think the lady behind the desk even really looked at the photo. She just took my $20, copied the info from my app to my permit, stapled one of the photos to the permit, and handed it to me. It was like less than three minutes total.
> But I was told they wouldn't be accepted because
yeah, and I would have expected nothing less. from my personal experience, the photos were required to be recent. just based on your having visited a barber would signal to me that the photos were not recent. even if you visited the barber while you waited for the 1-Hour Photo guy to finish, a logical person would realize this was not going to work out well
The criteria says "Two original passport pictures" ; it does not say "recent".
Regardless, the photos are recent (<1yr) and my driver's license has a 5 year validity and passports 10 year validity. As an illogical person, I sometimes change my appearance over a given 10 year span.
When I renew my US passport by mail, they don't actually know what I look like at the time of the renewal.
IDP's are only valid for a short period of time. I suspect that money-grubbing may play a role, but the purpose of them is to let you identify yourself to police in a language (especially an alphabet) you don't speak. So perhaps it's something that clerk had heard some horror story about and was giving good advice.
Yes, I suspect the 1 year validity of the IDP plays a part here. The gentleman who said my photo wouldn't be accepted was front desk (and, apparently, photo-taking) staff; he wasn't even the person creating the IDP. I agree with you that I suspect he was trying to be helpful.
comparing the validity of existing documents is moving the goal posts and pretty dishonest to the conversation.
you're applying for a new passport. to be shocked that at a minimum the pictures would look like you at the time of the application is pretty...I don't even know what word to use here. there's a way to make dealing with gov't agencies simple and as painless as possible, and then there's this.
The point that identity photos often look different from the person being identified isn't remotely dishonest to the conversation. It's the entire point, in fact: Does this actual human person look like this person depicted in this photo? That's why I bought up the passport photo situation to compare it to.
If you'll re-read more closely, you'll see that I was not applying for a new passport. I also wasn't working with a government agency.
By the way, it was simple and painless. I was told to bring photos if I had them; otherwise they could be done on-site for $9.99. I opened up my desk drawer on my way out of the house, and I happened to have photos. So I brought photos. I was told they were not acceptable, so I accepted the offer of an on-site photo, which took about 90 seconds, paid my fee, and went on my way. There was nothing difficult about it. I would not have saved myself any hassle had I left the photos in my drawer.
It's unclear to me why you have gone out of your way to misunderstand or misinterpret the situation, other than in a misguided attempt to be antagonistic, but it's not working.
So I actually shave my beard every time I get a haircut (so, let's say every 8 weeks).
What does 'recent' mean, since you have already acknowledged that temporal recency is irrelevant? When am I traveling? What's accurate to my current appearance? What if I started a cancer treatment that renders me unable to grow a beard?
Your flippant reply ignores reality, and these aren't even edge cases.
If you are applying for a new passport where you are needing these photos, the common sense logic from the person accepting/rejecting them would be do the photos look like the person in front of them. No? Reject. Yes? Accept. The flow chart is pretty simple.
The frequency of your grooming habits AFTER receiving a passport are irrelevant to the actual approval of a passport. This doesn't need to be hard.
Great project. It reminds me of the SNL sketch (can't remember which) where the character says "I like to keep a piece of sliced ham folded up in my pocket just so I have my own little secret."
They know that nobody standing in front of a customs officer that is looking at their photo will actually be smiling. So having it neutral or even scowling as your experience will be much more likely to match. /s
A decade ago, I was sent for a two-month business trip to China. I didn't have a valid passport (didn't need it within EU/Schengen Area) and had to make one in a hurry. I went to take my photo unkempt but freshly shaved. While in China, I didn't bother shaving, but I did get myself a haircut, that left me almost bald (communication mishap). One month in, I had to spend a weekend in Hong Kong to renew the work visa. On my way back, I happily handed my passport to the border control officer, and then spent terrifying 15 minutes trying to convince him, his colleague and then his superior, that the clean-shaved unkempt person in the photo and the near-bald, bearded person in front of them, are in fact the same person.
That's hillarious. Any chance you remember what you said to the Chinese hairdresser versus what you should have said to protect fellow HNers from such a mishap?
I believe the photo is encoded in the digital passport contents and the computer will check your face in the camera to see it matches. No human involved. Many countries have automatic passport gates now using this method.
If they already have your picture the agent will usually know who you are before you have even handed over your passport. The tech has gotten eerily good.
This program is used to resize large photo ID images. When image resizing occurs, a content aware image resizing library is used with its face detection algorithm to avoid face deformation.
I took my own passport photo with my mirrorless camera, and a whiteboard as the background. It took a while to get it right, with no bright spots on the background and now shadows. It was accepted.
I had my photo taken by an employee at the post office where they submit the application. It would have been fun to walk in and start duct taping myself to the wall without saying a word.
I was expecting some kind of article about an issue with passport photos or some kind of exploit, maybe photoshopping so it looks like the person but fools automatic facial recognition...
They're very funny indeed. I doubt they are AI-generated, they would the best AI images I've ever seen. If they are, there must be a lot of post-processing. But the artist being among others a photographer, I imagine they're actual photos. See other series on the website too, e.g. https://maxsiedentopf.com/19-off-amelie-pichard/
Hugged to death, here's an archive copy: https://archive.is/uPMjd
Oh! Something I took a part in on HN. That's a first. Almost everything there was practical. Highly recommend checking out all of Max's work, beaming with creativity.
So its not mentioned on the post but is this your actual passport photo that was accepted and used and you have it on your physical passport right now?
how did you come to take part?
I especially appreciate this on the assumption that it will be pulled in as input for AI training.
It's a lot of "fun" trying to get acceptable photos. Last week I went to my local American Automobile Association (AAA) office to get an International Driver's Permit (IDP). It's just a translation of your license, which is valid for 1 year. I had to take 2 passport-sized photos with me, which I did.
But I was told they wouldn't be accepted because I had long hair and a beard in them, but short hair and no beard now. That's absurd, because it's the same photo used in both of my passports, and there's no requirement that you don't alter your appearance from your passport photo. Somehow border guards can crack the code.
Amusingly, my California driver's license shows short hair and no beard, but the AAA person wasn't even looking at my CA license at the time. What happens if I grow long hair and a beard before I travel? Was he just trying to upsell me on a $9.99 photo?
We had a hell of a time getting the UK passport authorities to accept the photos we sent in for her passport; they recommend getting your photos taken at an "official" UK location where the digital photos are identified by a code you send in. Well, we happened to be traveling through Australia during this timeframe, so we were able to stop at an Australian Post Office, which supposedly had the same "digital" system, but instead of a code to send to the UK authorities, they handed us printed photos and a web link. Thankfully I was able to use the web link to download the photo and upload it to the UK site, where it was approved almost immediately, and the new passport arrived back at our home before we returned from our trip. But there's no user-obvious criteria that was being used to reject the SEVERAL rounds of photos we had sent to the UK earlier.
> But I was told they wouldn't be accepted because I had long hair and a beard in them, but short hair and no beard now.
Tell them your religion doesn't permit beardless photos, so you grew one for the photo.
When they ask what religion, pick one with beards.
It's AAA, not the police -- the person behind the desk will shrug, now with a reason not to care, and create your IDP.
I made my passport photos on a phone camera against a white wall, stitched them together with other family members and printed them on a 4x6 photo at CVS.
I think it cost something like $0.68 for 2 photos, each of which had all four of our photos plus 2 extra spots.
In my recent experience renewing my UK passport, I found I was able to submit the image regardless of the complaining it gave, I just had to write a note as to why I thought the image did in fact meet their criteria.
In my case, whatever detection software they used seemed to think my eyes were closed, which they were not.
I just used a normal picture taken on a phone, against a plain white wall, accepted with no issues.
The IDP feels like such a scam. I have to get it every year and it is so annoying.
The criteria for UK stuff is normally really clear? https://www.gov.uk/photos-for-passports
Can see how it would be annoying if they don't explain which criteria is being violated though
Yeah, the criteria is clear, but do everything you can to meet it, and the online submission will just say the photo quality is "poor" (unlikely to be approved) and not explain what's poor about it. I spent a lot of time juggling aspects of the photo itself as well as of the scan (DPI, compression, etc) and nothing seemed to make a difference.
Anecdata from the other side, I've done a few passports for family now and it gives immediate ratings and we've not had any issue at all.
> but instead of a code to send to the UK authorities, they handed us printed photos and a web link.
I had a similar experience with getting UK photos at a chemist, they said they could do digital photos and didn’t. So I went to the Photo Warehouse and it was smooth sailing. I guess the specialist photo outfits are more likely to know what they’re doing.
> But I was told they wouldn't be accepted
Huh. Last time I got an IDP from AAA, I don't think the lady behind the desk even really looked at the photo. She just took my $20, copied the info from my app to my permit, stapled one of the photos to the permit, and handed it to me. It was like less than three minutes total.
> But I was told they wouldn't be accepted because
yeah, and I would have expected nothing less. from my personal experience, the photos were required to be recent. just based on your having visited a barber would signal to me that the photos were not recent. even if you visited the barber while you waited for the 1-Hour Photo guy to finish, a logical person would realize this was not going to work out well
The criteria says "Two original passport pictures" ; it does not say "recent".
Regardless, the photos are recent (<1yr) and my driver's license has a 5 year validity and passports 10 year validity. As an illogical person, I sometimes change my appearance over a given 10 year span.
When I renew my US passport by mail, they don't actually know what I look like at the time of the renewal.
IDP's are only valid for a short period of time. I suspect that money-grubbing may play a role, but the purpose of them is to let you identify yourself to police in a language (especially an alphabet) you don't speak. So perhaps it's something that clerk had heard some horror story about and was giving good advice.
Yes, I suspect the 1 year validity of the IDP plays a part here. The gentleman who said my photo wouldn't be accepted was front desk (and, apparently, photo-taking) staff; he wasn't even the person creating the IDP. I agree with you that I suspect he was trying to be helpful.
comparing the validity of existing documents is moving the goal posts and pretty dishonest to the conversation.
you're applying for a new passport. to be shocked that at a minimum the pictures would look like you at the time of the application is pretty...I don't even know what word to use here. there's a way to make dealing with gov't agencies simple and as painless as possible, and then there's this.
The point that identity photos often look different from the person being identified isn't remotely dishonest to the conversation. It's the entire point, in fact: Does this actual human person look like this person depicted in this photo? That's why I bought up the passport photo situation to compare it to.
If you'll re-read more closely, you'll see that I was not applying for a new passport. I also wasn't working with a government agency.
By the way, it was simple and painless. I was told to bring photos if I had them; otherwise they could be done on-site for $9.99. I opened up my desk drawer on my way out of the house, and I happened to have photos. So I brought photos. I was told they were not acceptable, so I accepted the offer of an on-site photo, which took about 90 seconds, paid my fee, and went on my way. There was nothing difficult about it. I would not have saved myself any hassle had I left the photos in my drawer.
It's unclear to me why you have gone out of your way to misunderstand or misinterpret the situation, other than in a misguided attempt to be antagonistic, but it's not working.
So I actually shave my beard every time I get a haircut (so, let's say every 8 weeks).
What does 'recent' mean, since you have already acknowledged that temporal recency is irrelevant? When am I traveling? What's accurate to my current appearance? What if I started a cancer treatment that renders me unable to grow a beard?
Your flippant reply ignores reality, and these aren't even edge cases.
If you are applying for a new passport where you are needing these photos, the common sense logic from the person accepting/rejecting them would be do the photos look like the person in front of them. No? Reject. Yes? Accept. The flow chart is pretty simple.
The frequency of your grooming habits AFTER receiving a passport are irrelevant to the actual approval of a passport. This doesn't need to be hard.
Great project. It reminds me of the SNL sketch (can't remember which) where the character says "I like to keep a piece of sliced ham folded up in my pocket just so I have my own little secret."
> Can I smile in my passport photo?
> Yes. Make sure your eyes are open and your mouth is closed in your photo.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/how-app...
Yet on the same page, they have
> Pose and Expression: Have a neutral facial expression with both eyes open and mouth closed.
In my view, neutral and smiling are incompatible, but I guess that is up to interpretation.
> Neutral expression (not smiling, laughing or frowning)
https://www.passports.gov.au/PhotoGuidelines
Just got passports for my kids recently. My 14-year old was scowling in his photo. They accepted it.
They know that nobody standing in front of a customs officer that is looking at their photo will actually be smiling. So having it neutral or even scowling as your experience will be much more likely to match. /s
But but but - I have resting happy face!
My last Irish passport photo was rejected for smiling (I’m American born). The embassy lady said your expression is supposed to be “dour”.
I'm an American. I smile at everyone.
Reminds me of those portraits in the Haunted Mansion ride that expand when you go down the elevator.
https://hauntedmansion.fandom.com/wiki/Stretching_Room
The fish cursor is a delightful touch lol. I especially appreciate not knowing where the anchor point is hahaha
I was confused why so many of the photos had a random fish it them until I realized that was the cursor…
"Wear a tuxedo for your ID photos." - Glenn O'Brien (TV Party, Downtown 81, the Style Guy)
I’ve always thought to go unkempt and unshaven.
This is so that I would be recognized from my passport if I was detained for several months in a sketchy country.
A decade ago, I was sent for a two-month business trip to China. I didn't have a valid passport (didn't need it within EU/Schengen Area) and had to make one in a hurry. I went to take my photo unkempt but freshly shaved. While in China, I didn't bother shaving, but I did get myself a haircut, that left me almost bald (communication mishap). One month in, I had to spend a weekend in Hong Kong to renew the work visa. On my way back, I happily handed my passport to the border control officer, and then spent terrifying 15 minutes trying to convince him, his colleague and then his superior, that the clean-shaved unkempt person in the photo and the near-bald, bearded person in front of them, are in fact the same person.
That's hillarious. Any chance you remember what you said to the Chinese hairdresser versus what you should have said to protect fellow HNers from such a mishap?
像往常一樣短 請把鬍子刮乾淨 我想要比較短的 禿得像個嬰兒的屁股 ?
As Erma Bombeck said, "when you look like your passport photo, it's time to go home".
It’s odd, last time I went to the US they barely glanced at my photo
I believe the photo is encoded in the digital passport contents and the computer will check your face in the camera to see it matches. No human involved. Many countries have automatic passport gates now using this method.
If they already have your picture the agent will usually know who you are before you have even handed over your passport. The tech has gotten eerily good.
What an amusing experiment! I laughed out loud many times. A novel way to explore the boundaries of something so stringent.
Well lhat is a weid website. Can unseet that anytime soon.
Don't forget to scroll down the page. The girl with the wine glasses is my favorite. And the guy taped to the wall.
tangent:
I wrote this: https://github.com/jftuga/photo_id_resizer
Hugged to death :(
Hug text: The website is temporarily unable to service your request as it exceeded resource limit. Please try again later.
Clever usurpation of expectations _and_ artistic.
I took my own passport photo with my mirrorless camera, and a whiteboard as the background. It took a while to get it right, with no bright spots on the background and now shadows. It was accepted.
lol I thought these were AI generated at some point too just because of how silly they are
Organic + cage free is how I like my photos.
This is the web I miss.
All the fun stuff is happening out of frame.
this really makes me regret doing nothing like this when I recently had my passport photos taken.
I had my photo taken by an employee at the post office where they submit the application. It would have been fun to walk in and start duct taping myself to the wall without saying a word.
I was expecting some kind of article about an issue with passport photos or some kind of exploit, maybe photoshopping so it looks like the person but fools automatic facial recognition...
but was pleasantly surprised instead.
Thanks for the good laugh. Looks great!
They're very funny indeed. I doubt they are AI-generated, they would the best AI images I've ever seen. If they are, there must be a lot of post-processing. But the artist being among others a photographer, I imagine they're actual photos. See other series on the website too, e.g. https://maxsiedentopf.com/19-off-amelie-pichard/
Thank you for the link!